Flower in the River: A Family Tale Finally Told

Storytellers of the Eastland: From Tombstones to Trumpets

• Natalie Zett • Season 2 • Episode 78

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In episode 78 of Flower in the River podcast, I explore the power of storytelling through two distinct voices connected to the Eastland disaster. First, I introduce you to Jennifer from the Instagram page Posts in the Graveyard, a passionate storyteller who preserves the memory of Eastland victims through photographs and stories. I talk about how Jennifer's work adds depth and complements my own research, creating a fuller picture of the lives affected by the disaster.

Next, I dive into The Jazz Palace by Mary Morris, a novel that uses the Eastland disaster as the spark that sets the story in motion. While the book isn't entirely focused on the Eastland, the tragedy ignites the narrative and shapes the direction of the characters' lives. The novel beautifully captures the essence of Chicago during the Jazz Age, weaving a tale of survival, identity, and resilience. I highlight how Morris's storytelling sheds light on both the personal and cultural impacts of the disaster, and I share insights into the novel's themes of loss, music, and change.

My reflections on the Eastland and storytelling intertwine with my ongoing mission to honor the forgotten victims of the tragedy, reminding us that stories, more than objects or events, connect us to our shared past.

In this episode, you’ll learn about:

  • The fascinating work of Jennifer’s *Posts in the Graveyard* and her documentation of Eastland disaster victims.
  • The role of storytelling in preserving history and healing.
  • How Mary Morris’s novel *The Jazz Palace* brings the Eastland disaster into the broader context of Chicago’s cultural evolution.
  • My thoughts on how the Eastland tragedy continues to shape the stories of those impacted, both past and present.

Links: 


Natalie Zett:

Hello, I'm Natalie Zett and welcome to Flower in the River. This podcast, inspired by my book of the same name, explores the 1915 Eastland disaster in Chicago and its enduring impact, particularly on my family's history. We'll explore the intertwining narratives of others impacted by this tragedy as well, and we'll dive into writing and genealogy and uncover the surprising supernatural elements that surface in family history research. Come along with me on this journey of discovery. Hello, this is Natalie, and welcome to Episode 78 of Flower in the River podcast. I am going to open with a couple of quotes for you. First quote. First quote Information simply leaves us feeling incompetent and lost. We don't need more information. We need to know what it means. We need a story that explains what it means and makes us feel like we fit in there somewhere. That is from Annette Simmons, who's the author of the Story Factor. Second quote although business people are often suspicious of stories, the fact is that statistics are used to tell lies and damned lies, while accounting reports are often BS in a ball gown. If a business person understands that, his or her own mind naturally wants to frame experience in a story, the key to moving the audience is not to resist this impulse but to embrace it. That's from Robert McKee, who's the author of Story Substance, structure, style and the Principles of Screenwriting For this episode.

Natalie Zett:

I want to introduce you to a couple of storytellers, and, unlike most of the people who I talk about in Flower in the River podcast, these people are alive, and that makes them kind of a novelty, don't you think? Anyway, our first stop is Instagram. That's where I discovered this page called Posts in the Graveyard. That's P-O-S-T-S in in the graveyard, which has my name all over it. Only it belongs to somebody else and her name is Jennifer. And then I saw that Jennifer was based in Chicago, and not only that.

Natalie Zett:

Jennifer has visited the graves of a number of people who were involved in the Eastland disaster. But get this even though I've been following Jennifer on and off for quite a while, it was only this week that I explored her blog and found that she is doing phenomenal work in preserving the stories of so many who are connected to the Eastland. Not only does she take photographs of the graves, she also documents the stories of these people in their entirety. In other words, she talks about who they were, who their families were, what happened to the families before and after, and it's similar to what I do, but she has her own spin and she has different sources of information, it looks like, and so it really complements and strengthens what I'm trying to do and hopefully I'm doing the same for her.

Natalie Zett:

Jennifer has shared around 51 separate posts about individuals and families tied to the disaster posts about individuals and families tied to the disaster and because she's in Chicago, she can go and visit those cemeteries, which is awesome. Her photos are stunning. I hope you will go to Instagram and go to her webpage and take a look, but it's her storytelling that got to me. Her stories are well-researched and full of heart and care. I've learned a lot from her already just this week and I asked Jennifer if it was okay to share a link to her site on my webpage and to promote her in this podcast, and she said yes on my webpage and to promote her in this podcast, and she said yes, and so I've added links to both her Instagram and her webpage to my webpage.

Natalie Zett:

Here's the other thing If I've already covered an Eastland person in a previous podcast episode and if Jennifer has also shared their story, I went to my own blog post and added the link to Jennifer's blog post about the same person, so we have two different points of view and additional information about somebody or a family, which I think is wonderful. It's so energizing to see other perspectives on this, to see other perspectives on this. Actually, just knowing that somebody else cares about these stories and these people does my heart a lot of good. As you know, I've encountered way too many black holes in my search for the people of the Eastland, and nature abhors a vacuum, right. So it's great when someone steps up and fills in that space, and hopefully there'll be a time soon where I'll be able to say you know those black holes, most of them are filled in, but not quite there yet. I want to publicly thank Jennifer for the work she's done, for her generosity and for allowing me to share links to her work on my website and to be able to share her contributions with you on this podcast. So thanks again, jennifer. Keep doing what you do. It's appreciated. And now let's move on to our next storyteller.

Natalie Zett:

I knew of this writer for a while now. I haven't really read too many of her books, but what I didn't know until a couple of weeks ago? That she too has a connection to the Eastland disaster, and she did something very original with that connection. Have you heard of Mary Morris? I bet you might have, so let me give you a little bit of information about her, and this interview is from the Kalamazoo Gazette, sunday, january 26, 2003. So it was a while ago that Mary was interviewed, and this is about a pivot that she made in her own writing career. The title is Travel Writer Mary Morris journeys to another genre. I want to tell you as a writer, do you know how radical that was? If you switch genres as a writer, it was a risk, put it that way, it was very risky to do that. At least back then that was the case and to some extent that still is true, though it's not as constraining as it once was. So the fact that she did do that is incredible. The article is by Matthew Jakubowski of the Kalamazoo Gazette.

Natalie Zett:

Author Mary Morris is best known for her travel writing filled with personal revelations, such as one of her most famous works Nothing to Declare Memoirs of a Woman Traveling Alone. She's also published six novels and four collections of short stories and co-edited three collections of travel essays by women. Generally, her fiction is semi-autobiographical, told from a female perspective. So it was a surprise to learn that she'd spent the last five years researching a lengthy historical novel. Quote I'd gotten a little tired of the first person, morris said via telephone from her home in Brooklyn, new York. Artistically, I feel the need to blow out of that box.

Natalie Zett:

Morris's new book, tentatively titled the Jazz Palace, represents a deliberate step into a new genre. She said she's considering presenting part of the new work in progress during her visit to Western Michigan University on Thursday. Her first book of short stories, 1979's Vanishing Acts, won Morris the Rome Prize in Literature and she's also been published in the Paris Review, vogue and the New York Times, among others. But her latest novel, acts of God, published in 2000 by Picador Press, another personal work that deals with a divorced woman's reflection on an unhappy childhood, did not generally receive good reviews. Did not generally receive good reviews. Perhaps that's why she's chosen a new direction.

Natalie Zett:

While nothing to declare dealt with Morris's adventures in Central and South America, morris came back to her hometown of Chicago to get into the history behind her new book. Although she's based in Brooklyn for some time now, where she lives with her daughter and husband, who works for the Wall Street Journal, morris sets the Jazz Palace in Chicago because quote I love this city and when I was growing up my mother read me a lot of its history. Morris is also working on a short novel of revenge aptly given the working title Revenge. Working versions of the Jazz Palace range anywhere from 400 to 700 pages, morris said that's why I'd like to probably get the revenge novel out first. Headline Two Tragedies.

Natalie Zett:

The Jazz Palace begins with several characters standing on the banks of the Chicago River witnessing one of the worst river accidents in US maritime history the sinking of the Eastland on July 24, 1915. Morris didn't have to look far for a primary source on this incident. Primary source on this incident, quote my father, who's 100 years old, was present when the Eastlands sank. Morris said he was a boy when he saw it happen. Beginning with her father's account of the accident, the narrative in the Jazz Palace follows the lives of those who witnessed the sinking as seven points of view of life in Chicago, through the Jazz Age to the 1960s. Morris scoured Chicago's South Side quote from 31st to 47th Street and what was left of the jazz clubs down there unquote to collect background material, she said From about 1910 to 1930, this area was known as the Stroll, she said, because jazz fans and musicians could walk from club to club and hear greats such as Louis Armstrong.

Natalie Zett:

While her father's experience with the Eastland tragedy of 1915 sparks the plot of the Jazz Palace, the terrorist attacks of 2001 have hit much closer to Morris's life. Her husband, larry, was in One World Financial Center, a building in the shadow of where the Twin Towers stood. Morris said the day will take time to become part of America's literary landscape after it's sunk into our history and beyond our current political situation. Morris said music such as Bruce Springsteen's last album, the Rising, is a good tribute. Quote is a good tribute. Quote. There are so many untold stories you hear, said Morris. I heard about a woman who went to work and the office coffee pot was broken so she went out to buy a new one. Similar stories and characters are now entering Morris's writing. A character in another novel I'm working on has a twin who died on 9-11. I found out that there were many twins whose twin died that day, morris said, because of the twin towers of the World Trade Center. The twinness of these people and what happened to them was fascinating to me because it made their experience much more complicated. Quote heading to Prague.

Natalie Zett:

Morris's latest work might not be in the same vein as the travel writing that made her reputation, but she hasn't lost her wanderlust. She'll attend WMU's summer writing program in Prague this summer for the third year in a row. The program is an annual forum for acclaimed writers to gather in the Czech Republic's capital city to speak, teach and answer questions about their craft. The Prague trip will include her daughter, as well as a visit to Belize next month. No stranger to the classroom, morris also holds a tenured part-time professorship at Sarah Lawrence College, where she teaches one class each semester. Quote I like the diversity. I love teaching. It replenishes me, she said me.

Natalie Zett:

She said I want to pause and tell you what my reactions are to Mary Morris's interview. As a fellow writer, I so appreciate the fact that she goes in and she demystifies things. She doesn't present herself as all-knowing and some kind of expert, even though she probably really is. She lets you look under the hood. She lets you know how she struggles with certain things, how she's had to pivot, how she's taken risks, how she looks at her current environment and applies it to the writing that she's doing, how she can look at her own family's past and integrate that into a tightly woven story. So she really lets you in. And also I'm comfortable with her because I can see that she challenges herself all the time. She continues to learn, she continues to be curious and she continues to experiment. So that's also why I was motivated to buy that book and take a look at it, because I felt I could trust her.

Natalie Zett:

So, 12 years after that interview in 2003, the Jazz Palace was published in 2015. But since Mary started researching in 1998, thereabouts, it took her approximately 17 years to get that from her imagination, from her memories, into book form. It takes the amount of time that it takes to do things like this. What I also appreciate about what Mary did in this interview is that she let us inside, she let us look under the hood and she also let us know that this activity of writing a book is like any other job. It's a lot of work, it's difficult, sometimes it's discouraging, then it's encouraging and you have to do a lot of course correction along the way to get things out into the universe. So she's let us see what this process is like and I really appreciate that, and I think anyone who engages in this activity will appreciate the fact that somebody who's mega accomplished still has to go through this process. And the other consoling thing is that the Eastland disaster story can give you a real run for your money. I was really glad to come across the Jazz Palace by Mary Morris, as it's another piece of literature that's been overlooked in discussions about the Eastland disaster.

Natalie Zett:

This book should be part of the Eastland story, hands down. Although the Eastland isn't the main character, its influences fell throughout, much like my own book, and once something like this whether it's the Eastland disaster or 9-11 touches a life, it changes everything, and that's really the heart of what I've been sharing with you in these weekly podcasts. It's not just about a ship tipping over and people dying, as things are often portrayed. The central focus shouldn't be on the object. It's the lives that were taken. It's the lives that were forever changed that are so important because therein lies the stories that connect us to the past. That is where the real story lies, and it's much more difficult and complex to confront that than it is just focusing on an inanimate object like a ship.

Natalie Zett:

The other thing I was wondering what was going on in the late 90s that caused so many of us to be drawn to the story of the Eastland disaster For me. I didn't even know that was part of my family's history until then. So I wonder what prompted my mother's sister, my aunt, to share that story, besides the fact that she was getting older and getting worried about that? What prompted Mary to seek this story out, to return to her roots, to take whatever time it took to get this story published? And then, if you add to that the complexity of being in New York City during the time of 9-11, there's a lot going on there.

Natalie Zett:

So I want to do my first book review outside of my own book for this podcast, because the Jazz Palace is important. I'm not going to give away any spoilers, because I think you really do need to read this book if this era intrigues you at all. So the Jazz Palace captures the essence of Chicago pre-jazz age and then jazz age. It's right on the cusp of what's going on, so that makes it even more tense and exciting, and this was a time when Chicago was alive with music, culture and deep-seated social change. Not that that's not the case now, but maybe it always was. There's always something special about Chicago in that respect. Before we immerse ourselves into the world of jazz.

Natalie Zett:

It's crucial to highlight a pivotal moment in this story. It is the Eastland disaster. The book isn't about the Eastland disaster, but it very much is about the Eastland disaster, because that changed everything, and this tragedy is not just a backdrop, but it is the thing, the spark that sets the fire ablazing. So here's what happened when I bought the book I was just going to read the Eastland parts and get an idea of it, and then I wasn't going to go into the entire book. Well, I couldn't stop myself. I really was pulled into the story, the stories of all of these people. It gave me a deeper insight into the very people that I've been profiling during the last, however, many weeks of this podcast, because Mary is a really good storyteller I can't say that enough, and I'm not much of a fiction reader, believe it or not. What's so compelling about it are the characters. They're very human, they're not necessarily always likable, but they are compelling. So the Eastland is the event that brings together our two main characters, and they are Benny Lehrman and Pearl Chimbrova, and it's a connection that is both wonderful and tragic at the same time. And these people are not the same. After all of this happens because there's a lot of loss with both families and they have to figure out how to build lives after that.

Natalie Zett:

The Jazz Palace is set in Chicago, spanning from the aftermath of the Eastland disaster in 1915 to approximately the late 1920s Not the 1960s as Mary thought it might be, but that's what happens when you're writing you don't know how it's going to change over the years. I'm going to start with Benny Lehrman. Benny is a young Jewish man from a family of hat makers on Maxwell Street, which is a neighborhood known for its diverse immigrant population. At that point, on that fateful day in 1915, benny is just doing his job and he's there at the site of the Eastland disaster just watching everything take place, and he actually helped with the rescue. I'm not sure if that was the case for Mary Morris's father or not, but it is intriguing. So Benny witnesses this with Pearl and her family, and Pearl is a tough and independent young woman from a working-class family and their brief meeting leaves an indelible mark on both of them and it follows them even when they don't recognize each other in the years to come. And it follows them even when they don't recognize each other in the years to come, years later, as the jazz age takes hold of Chicago, benny and Pearl do meet again.

Natalie Zett:

Benny has drifted far away from his family's business, and he's drawn into the world of music. For Benny, the piano becomes his refuge and jazz is his passion. Beccano becomes his refuge and jazz is his passion, and, despite the expectations placed on him to go into the family business, benny begins playing in speakeasies and clubs across the city, where his talent quickly catches the attention of local musicians and club owners. Benny's journey isn't just about the music. It's about running away from the dragons of the past, and he's also torn between the expectations of his family and his love for jazz, a genre that was often viewed as rebellious and morally questionable. The Eastland disaster, though, set him on a path that he couldn't have predicted, pushing him away from his family's world and into this other, vibrant and sometimes dangerous world of jazz. Then there's Pearl Chimbrova, the woman Benny stood with on the dock during the day of the Eastland disaster. Pearl comes also from a similar family background working-class family, jewish. As time goes by, pearl is determined to carve her own path in a male-dominated world, and she dreams of opening her own jazz club. So, years after their first encounter, pearl and Benny's lives intersect again, and Pearl has indeed established the Jazz Palace, a club that quickly becomes a haven for musicians, a place where they can freely express their art away from the constraints of society. And then Benny ends up at that club playing piano. And the story, the overarching story, is also about survival, about identity and about defiance in society that is not as rock solid as they once thought it was thought it was. And at their young ages, pearl and Benny and everyone else who witnessed the disaster realized that death could be around the corner. They knew this.

Natalie Zett:

One of the novel's most compelling characters is Napoleon Hill, a young, talented African-American trumpet player who becomes part of the jazz scene at the Jazz Palace. Now, this Napoleon is not to be confused with the famous self-help author. Our Napoleon Hill in this story represents the cultural significance of jazz during the Jazz Age. Napoleon Hill is depicted as a musical prodigy, but he also comes from a tragic life and continues to face significant challenges due to the racial attitudes of that era. Napoleon is often marginalized and his journey in the novel reflects the broader racial and social tensions of that era and social tensions of that era. Through Napoleon's experience, the Jazz Palace goes deep into the racial inequities of the era and the ways in which jazz served as both a unifying force and a reflection of societal divisions. Napoleon's performances at Pearl's Club draws crowds at Pearl's Club draws crowds, establishing the Jazz Palace as a premier venue for jazz in Chicago. His story is one of not just resilience but constant reinvention.

Natalie Zett:

The other aspect to the Jazz Palace story is the Great Migration. The Great Migration refers to the movement of millions of African Americans from the rural south to the urban north, including blues and early jazz music, which blended with other influences that were already established in Chicago to create this wonderful, crazy jazz scene that is depicted in the novel. So the Jazz Palace, it's about a lot of things. It's not exactly about the Eastland Disaster, but the Eastland Disaster is a prominent influence and mover and shaker. It's not specifically about jazz, but jazz is moving and shaking and upsetting and causing all kinds of societal conventions to turn on their heads.

Natalie Zett:

After I finished the book I realized that my attitude about Chicago during that time had changed. I thought I had a pretty good handle on it, but after reading this story I understood that my family's lives and the lives of so many of those who were around during that time was a lot more raw and edgy, because they didn't have the outer protective layers of class and money, the fact that children children were working so early in their lives. Most of them did not have a childhood. Since most of these kids at that point would have been the ages of my grandparents. When I was growing up, I think I understood better why they had the attitudes that they had, because for the most part, if they came here during the late 1800s, early 1900s, they were working right away. They didn't have a childhood and they saw to it that their children and their children's children could have that precious thing called a childhood.

Natalie Zett:

The other thing, too, is that, by the amount of time it took Mary to write this book again, she was no lightweight in terms of the literary world, but it took time, and I have the feeling that the experience of writing about her dad's experience and going back to Chicago as she did it probably changed her quite a bit, and I'm sure her life too was never the same after that.

Natalie Zett:

So I do want to recommend both Mary Morris's book the Jazz Palace I think you will love it and also I think you will love the Instagram page for Posts in the Graveyard, as well as the blog by Jennifer, and I promise to have even more stories for you next week. So have a good one and I will talk to you soon. Hey, that's it for this episode and thanks for coming along for the ride. Please subscribe or follow so you can keep up with all the episodes, and for more information, please go to my website, that's wwwflowerintherivercom. I hope you'll consider buying my book, available as audiobook, ebook, paperback and hardcover, because I still owe people money and that's my running joke. But the one thing I'm serious about is that this podcast and my book are dedicated to the memory of all who experienced the Eastland disaster of 1915. Goodbye for now.

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